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Game balance

lGodSpawnllGodSpawnl Posts: 7 New Agent

It seems like the only thing they wanna update and change are those loot boxes. Because that's where the money is. But they don't really care about balance I guess

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Comments

  • TanthalasTanthalas Posts: 944 Amazing

    I'm sure that making new loot boxes is considerably easier than balancing characters and fixing bugs.

    Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage".

  • FrontdackelFrontdackel Posts: 46 Mighty

    Yeah.... PvP is a total mess right now. Look at the ladder. Blade destroyed PvP.

    Oh, wait....

    Are there characters that are more powerful than others? Yes.
    Easier to play? Yes.

    Is there any competitive part in this game that needs balancing? Nope.

    Doesn't mean that there are not some characters that could use a boost.

  • LeCuzLeCuz Posts: 25 Mighty

    @Frontdackel said:
    Yeah.... PvP is a total mess right now. Look at the ladder. Blade destroyed PvP.

    Oh, wait....

    Are there characters that are more powerful than others? Yes.
    Easier to play? Yes.

    Is there any competitive part in this game that needs balancing? Nope.

    Doesn't mean that there are not some characters that could use a boost.

    Depending on how hard raids are, balance might be very important.

  • WeirdWeird Posts: 62 Mighty

    It's PVE game balance isn't really that important. However there are some character that need a damage buff just cause they're too weak and that makes them boring and not fun to play.

  • ObiJabroniObiJabroni Posts: 61 Mighty

    @Frontdackel said:
    Yeah.... PvP is a total mess right now. Look at the ladder. Blade destroyed PvP.

    IMO pvp should be done differently then what they added to PC.

    A free for all PVP zone like Mid Town. Where you can 'hostile' players and the other player has to 'hostile' tag you back into order to inflict damage on each other is the proper way to go before adding any other 'mini game pvp' modes.

    ^This is fun.. This is hours and hours and hours of mindless dueling fun.

  • CataclysmicCataclysmic Posts: 81 Mighty

    PvP doesnt work in these type of games it's not competitive at all.
    Balancing is only an issue when you have characters like Captain Marvel Captain America and a few others who have nothing in there kit that's worth playing for. The only time it becomes an issue is if Angela or Scarlet Witch can 1 bang the bosses in raids.

  • FrontdackelFrontdackel Posts: 46 Mighty

    @LeCuz said:

    @Frontdackel said:
    Yeah.... PvP is a total mess right now. Look at the ladder. Blade destroyed PvP.

    Oh, wait....

    Are there characters that are more powerful than others? Yes.
    Easier to play? Yes.

    Is there any competitive part in this game that needs balancing? Nope.

    Doesn't mean that there are not some characters that could use a boost.

    Depending on how hard raids are, balance might be very important.

    Yes and no. Not that important. It "just" makes some characters less viable for raids. Which in itself is an issue and kind of sad. There are a load of characters to choose from. And it might turn out that only a small portion of them might be of use (exaggerating here).
    Does that mean that they need balancing? Not realy, not as much as if this game had PvP content.
    Even though it would be stupid to lock out a good portion of the rooster.
    On the other hand, most coop games kind of suffer from a problem. At the highest difficulty a good part of the community becomes kinda obsessed with the "perfect" setup.
    Don't follow it to the letter and you get kicked before the game even starts.
    Always loved that on ME3 lobbies. "No, don't play that character. It sucks. You suck." End of round - top of the scoreboard.

    Long story short: Would I like to see a boost for some characters? Yes.
    Do I get worked up about it? Nope, no competive play (I might change my mind as soon as try to get wolvie leveled and through cosmic.)

  • H3rTzDoNuTH3rTzDoNuT Posts: 140 Incredible

    I just hope pvp won't ever makes to consoles.
    We all know how much they nerfed Nioh just to make pvp work and it's still terrible, unbalanced and broken mode that only few people play.

  • ObiJabroniObiJabroni Posts: 61 Mighty
    edited August 11

    @Cataclysmic said:
    PvP doesnt work in these type of games it's not competitive at all.

    I disagree with that .. Diablo 2 did pvp perfectly. And it was highly competitive and casual and fun.

    Just don't try hard with balancing pvp.. And just let the cards fall where they fall. Just give a flat 50 to 75% damage reduction across the board to pvp. Give a HUGE area to play in.. And allow players to toggle who they want to fight. Thats FUN and pretty simple to add.

    The real problem is.. When game devs over think things and starting listening to players who want PVP balanced, and rewards and pvp gear.

    PVP can't be balanced in a game like this.. In most cases its rock, paper scissors.. And some are just balanced by default. Sometimes you're the underdog.. sometimes you're not.

  • TaskSpideyTaskSpidey Posts: 83 Mighty

    Speaking on the imbalance thing I feel some characters are pigeon-holed into playing a certain style or die repeatedly and be useless. Ex: Melee focused Black-Panther. Try doing Doom as Melee Black-Panther when Doom has the Modifiers Winters's Grasp and Poison Cloud/Caltrops on Cosmic. See how long it takes you to finish and how many time you die.

    Twitch: Sar_Ras

    This post was brought to you by THE BEST!

  • ChufmoneyChufmoney Bay Area, CAPosts: 11 Staff

    I would say this is a question of itemization, too. If you want to play them melee, you have to focus more on survivability than just raw damage. So there is a trade off.

    @TaskSpidey said:
    Speaking on the imbalance thing I feel some characters are pigeon-holed into playing a certain style or die repeatedly and be useless. Ex: Melee focused Black-Panther. Try doing Doom as Melee Black-Panther when Doom has the Modifiers Winters's Grasp and Poison Cloud/Caltrops on Cosmic. See how long it takes you to finish and how many time you die.

  • TaskSpideyTaskSpidey Posts: 83 Mighty

    What about the melees that don't need to focus on damage they can build tank and still dish out the DPS? Or the melees that can go full damage but have alot of built in survivability built in by default? They don't have to make any sacrifices at-all. I probably sound like a tool, but it definitely feels like some characters just have to be built in a certain path-way or else. You are right about Black-Panther, if I put more defense on him it would be better for a melee panther, but then you do very little damage then it becomes a point of why pick panther as melee dps but put def items on him to live longer when I can just play Colossus and out-live and out-dps panther.

    Twitch: Sar_Ras

    This post was brought to you by THE BEST!

  • DozenMarksDozenMarks True Believer Posts: 74 Mighty

    @Chufmoney said:
    Actually, and yes, I just "actually'd" you, we do balance changes all the time. Not all of it is noted in patch notes unless it's particularly crucial or major.

    We constantly evaluate character power and try to update them, and, to be clear, the people making the loot boxes ARE NOT THE SAME FOLKS MAKING BALANCE CHANGES. One does not mean the other goes neglected.

    To your point, what in particular are you feeling "imbalanced"?

    @lGodSpawnl said:
    It seems like the only thing they wanna update and change are those loot boxes. Because that's where the money is. But they don't really care about balance I guess

    All of the balance changes SHOULD be listed in the Patch Notes, however. There might be a lot less talk about random undocumented changes if there just weren't... well, random undocumented changes.

  • TheMadTitan616TheMadTitan616 San Jose, CAPosts: 23 Mighty

    Sounds like everyone wants their favorite hero to be top tier. I wonder what other games would be like with a full roster of top tiers.

  • MercwithMouth82MercwithMouth82 Posts: 4,968 Uncanny

    @Chufmoney said:
    Actually, and yes, I just "actually'd" you, we do balance changes all the time. Not all of it is noted in patch notes unless it's particularly crucial or major.

    We constantly evaluate character power and try to update them, and, to be clear, the people making the loot boxes ARE NOT THE SAME FOLKS MAKING BALANCE CHANGES. One does not mean the other goes neglected.

    To your point, what in particular are you feeling "imbalanced"?

    @lGodSpawnl said:
    It seems like the only thing they wanna update and change are those loot boxes. Because that's where the money is. But they don't really care about balance I guess

    What feels imbalanced...

    For instance having characters like Iceman or Blade that easily outperfom other geared-up characters while in trash gear.

    Apart from that, as already stated: changes to characters should be documented.

  • DeksamDeksam Posts: 1,128 Astonishing

    @TheMadTitan616 said:
    Sounds like everyone wants their favorite hero to be top tier. I wonder what other games would be like with a full roster of top tiers.

    Maybe for some, but a lot of times its just so that every character is enjoyable. Most characters have builds that work well, then there are other characters where they have a finite number of builds, and then those characters where they'll have workable builds but are still not particularly strong characters.

    The numbers of those characters that aren't particularly strong is fairly low, and likely due to poor energy consumption, or poor damage balance in comparison to other characters. (such as abilities with too high of a cost for the low amount of damage they produce)

  • djgeniusvidjgeniusvi your favorite nightclubPosts: 209 Amazing

    @Weird said:
    It's PVE game balance isn't really that important. However there are some character that need a damage buff just cause they're too weak and that makes them boring and not fun to play.

    This! Struggling through content with someone u like is less desirable than doing well in it with someone u aren't that fond about

  • djgeniusvidjgeniusvi your favorite nightclubPosts: 209 Amazing

    Everyone doesn't have to do top tier damage, but have SOMETHING to them that is desirable... Examples:
    1. Iceman may not have top tier damage, but he has so much CC in his powers that he can control the field...
    2. If someone like wolverine is an insane boss killer by a far margin... Also him never dying... Just damage getting super low when he loses all health and fury
    3. Jean should also be a CC queen where she has a load out that allows all the powers to CC (even the spender can proc enemies to be levitate)
    4. A character that has the capability of having everything brut (like colossus ult) for 15 seconds after they use their sig

    But if a character is just squishy and weak, they won't be fun to play with even if we like them... Thats how I feel about Jean's mental build... Energy consuming and weak... Combine that with her being squishy... No fun...

  • RidethelightninRidethelightnin Posts: 251 Amazing
    edited August 12

    @djgeniusvi My Colossus ultimate is rank 9 and it lasts for 24 seconds. I am not sure what rank 20 would be. All 4 summoners plus me punching things in the face does a lot of damage.

  • VenomviruVenomviru Posts: 1,287 Astonishing
    edited August 13

    @Chufmoney said:

    I would say this is a question of itemization, too. If you want to play them melee, you have to focus more on survivability than just raw damage. So there is a trade off.

    Do you guys test best case scenarios? IE best gear when testing heroes? I belive this is how Blizzard does it with WoW so not a bad thing just curious.

    But that statement above this seems disingenuous to say the least, You wont past a trial if you build for "survivability" than raw damage..... Its a DPS race and one that's meant to prep you for content...

    Also some heroes take ages to get into a place where they aren't wet noodles and made of out paper, Spider-man and Gambit spring to mind here, Where as Hulk and Ice-man are super soon as they ding 60, Tanky + damage, in Hulks case I can stand in fire+poison while face tanking cosmic bosses. Doesn't help both have a 2nd life mechanic either :open_mouth:

    @deksam Ice-man has 1 build as his other skills suck :P He's so cookie cutter by default(its more or less the order the skills unlock for you) Where as some heroes might have a melee version or ranged and some hybrid others have 1 or a meh version. It took me a good few hrs to work out a Spider-man build that was fun to play and deal damage, I got it going atlast last night now feels like Spidey, But who will put in the time and effort to find that build?

  • MetaiPhoenixMetaiPhoenix Posts: 6 New Agent

    @Chufmoney said:
    Actually, and yes, I just "actually'd" you, we do balance changes all the time. Not all of it is noted in patch notes unless it's particularly crucial or major.

    We constantly evaluate character power and try to update them, and, to be clear, the people making the loot boxes ARE NOT THE SAME FOLKS MAKING BALANCE CHANGES. One does not mean the other goes neglected.

    To your point, what in particular are you feeling "imbalanced"?

    The huge roster of heroes yet only very few put out insane numbers the rest of the roster dreams about.For example:

    Blade - 100% brutal, not an execute, stack brutal dmg, whip for bloodlust, signature to win, easily hits for high MILLIONS every time signature is active.

    What other character has a 100% brut strike ability that isn't crippled by "execute" IE: your damage is capped based on % of targets health

    So in forming a raid team, it would be pretty stupid not to have at least 1 blade on your team. And it's so damn cheesy. Why bother to play or gear anybody else if clearly there is another hero who requires much less "itemization" and actual character building?

    Forget having to look for gear that adds crit rating, crit dmg, brut rating, brut dmg. Just give me the lame Ketchup! hero I only need to find brut dmg gear to win.

    Iceman, Blade, Scarlet Witch, And 2 other randoms pretty much the meta for a potential console raid. And it's just incredibly boring and disappointing to have a decent size roster but the kit for a select few heroes makes it incredibly easy to be "good" without having to take much time in order to do so.

  • TheMadTitan616TheMadTitan616 San Jose, CAPosts: 23 Mighty

    @Deksam said:

    @TheMadTitan616 said:
    Sounds like everyone wants their favorite hero to be top tier. I wonder what other games would be like with a full roster of top tiers.

    Maybe for some, but a lot of times its just so that every character is enjoyable. Most characters have builds that work well, then there are other characters where they have a finite number of builds, and then those characters where they'll have workable builds but are still not particularly strong characters.

    The numbers of those characters that aren't particularly strong is fairly low, and likely due to poor energy consumption, or poor damage balance in comparison to other characters. (such as abilities with too high of a cost for the low amount of damage they produce)

    I totally get it. But in reality, it is a little hard and I can't wrong them for that. Some characters will just be weak. It's like Black Adam vs Black Canary in Injustice 2. Who will be the victor? Black Adam 8-9 times out of 10! Why? Because Black Canary is just too low tier with her kit and won't be top tier unless Netherrealm gave her insane damage output. I do understand what you are saying and have noticed significant differences in characters after already getting the whole roster to 60 and all cosmic trials beat. I have to say YOU CAN DEFINITELY TELL there are some stragglers. Gambit was one of the most noticeable because of my time on PC with him.

    I didn't think much of it though. I just said to myself that this is how games are. There will be top, mid and low tiers forever. Maybe the fighting game experience I have has conditioned me to accept this. Either way I can still understand and accept the gripes being made, whether right or wrong.

  • FahadFahad Probably at workPosts: 799 Amazing

    I like it personally, when the hero plays their style. and in the same time work with trade-off.
    Hulk I like how he just wreck everything, and I like it because it matches HULK.

    Wolverine, MANY people complained he sucks...but wolverine is 1-1 hero, if you play him as such, then you will see how freaking strong he is, and I like it.

    I just started Nightcrawler, I haven't played him fully yet, but it seems he doesn't do a lot of damage, but he is always stealthed, which matches his character.

    I don't believe that some heroes are super weak, but they do have disadvantages...specially Melee guys

    PS4: Fahad001
    Twitch: TheFahad

  • TonyBingTonyBing Posts: 1,280 Astonishing
    edited August 14

    @MetaiPhoenix said:

    @Chufmoney said:
    Actually, and yes, I just "actually'd" you, we do balance changes all the time. Not all of it is noted in patch notes unless it's particularly crucial or major.

    We constantly evaluate character power and try to update them, and, to be clear, the people making the loot boxes ARE NOT THE SAME FOLKS MAKING BALANCE CHANGES. One does not mean the other goes neglected.

    To your point, what in particular are you feeling "imbalanced"?

    The huge roster of heroes yet only very few put out insane numbers the rest of the roster dreams about.For example:

    Blade - 100% brutal, not an execute, stack brutal dmg, whip for bloodlust, signature to win, easily hits for high MILLIONS every time signature is active.

    What other character has a 100% brut strike ability that isn't crippled by "execute" IE: your damage is capped based on % of targets health

    So in forming a raid team, it would be pretty stupid not to have at least 1 blade on your team. And it's so damn cheesy. Why bother to play or gear anybody else if clearly there is another hero who requires much less "itemization" and actual character building?

    Forget having to look for gear that adds crit rating, crit dmg, brut rating, brut dmg. Just give me the lame Ketchup! hero I only need to find brut dmg gear to win.

    Iceman, Blade, Scarlet Witch, And 2 other randoms pretty much the meta for a potential console raid. And it's just incredibly boring and disappointing to have a decent size roster but the kit for a select few heroes makes it incredibly easy to be "good" without having to take much time in order to do so.

    Raid bosses will be immune to cc so Chaos Warp, Flash freeze won't be useful. In regards to Blade he's great for Boss rushing but when fighting bosses with huge health pools his damage over time will even out. Sustained damage over time and group buffs will be the most important thing heroes can bring to raids.

    -------------------------------------- NEW TO MARVEL HEROES OMEGA? CHECKOUT MY BEGINNERS GUIDES HERE | COSTUME PREVIEWS HERE ---------------------------------------

    --------------------------------------------------- FOLLOW ME TWITTER & YOUTUBE | PSN ID: TONYBING_MHO | STEAM ID: TONYBINGGAMING -------------------------------------------------

  • MercwithMouth82MercwithMouth82 Posts: 4,968 Uncanny

    @TonyBing said:

    @MetaiPhoenix said:

    @Chufmoney said:
    Actually, and yes, I just "actually'd" you, we do balance changes all the time. Not all of it is noted in patch notes unless it's particularly crucial or major.

    We constantly evaluate character power and try to update them, and, to be clear, the people making the loot boxes ARE NOT THE SAME FOLKS MAKING BALANCE CHANGES. One does not mean the other goes neglected.

    To your point, what in particular are you feeling "imbalanced"?

    The huge roster of heroes yet only very few put out insane numbers the rest of the roster dreams about.For example:

    Blade - 100% brutal, not an execute, stack brutal dmg, whip for bloodlust, signature to win, easily hits for high MILLIONS every time signature is active.

    What other character has a 100% brut strike ability that isn't crippled by "execute" IE: your damage is capped based on % of targets health

    So in forming a raid team, it would be pretty stupid not to have at least 1 blade on your team. And it's so damn cheesy. Why bother to play or gear anybody else if clearly there is another hero who requires much less "itemization" and actual character building?

    Forget having to look for gear that adds crit rating, crit dmg, brut rating, brut dmg. Just give me the lame Ketchup! hero I only need to find brut dmg gear to win.

    Iceman, Blade, Scarlet Witch, And 2 other randoms pretty much the meta for a potential console raid. And it's just incredibly boring and disappointing to have a decent size roster but the kit for a select few heroes makes it incredibly easy to be "good" without having to take much time in order to do so.

    Raid bosses will be immune to cc so Chaos Warp, Flash freeze won't be useful. In regards to Blade he's great for Boss rushing but when fighting bosses with huge health pools his damage over time will even out. Sustained damage over time and group buffs will be the most important thing heroes can bring to raids.

    Has there already more insight shared on console raids apart from 5 players only?

  • TonyBingTonyBing Posts: 1,280 Astonishing

    @MercwithMouth82 said:

    @TonyBing said:

    @MetaiPhoenix said:

    @Chufmoney said:
    Actually, and yes, I just "actually'd" you, we do balance changes all the time. Not all of it is noted in patch notes unless it's particularly crucial or major.

    We constantly evaluate character power and try to update them, and, to be clear, the people making the loot boxes ARE NOT THE SAME FOLKS MAKING BALANCE CHANGES. One does not mean the other goes neglected.

    To your point, what in particular are you feeling "imbalanced"?

    The huge roster of heroes yet only very few put out insane numbers the rest of the roster dreams about.For example:

    Blade - 100% brutal, not an execute, stack brutal dmg, whip for bloodlust, signature to win, easily hits for high MILLIONS every time signature is active.

    What other character has a 100% brut strike ability that isn't crippled by "execute" IE: your damage is capped based on % of targets health

    So in forming a raid team, it would be pretty stupid not to have at least 1 blade on your team. And it's so damn cheesy. Why bother to play or gear anybody else if clearly there is another hero who requires much less "itemization" and actual character building?

    Forget having to look for gear that adds crit rating, crit dmg, brut rating, brut dmg. Just give me the lame Ketchup! hero I only need to find brut dmg gear to win.

    Iceman, Blade, Scarlet Witch, And 2 other randoms pretty much the meta for a potential console raid. And it's just incredibly boring and disappointing to have a decent size roster but the kit for a select few heroes makes it incredibly easy to be "good" without having to take much time in order to do so.

    Raid bosses will be immune to cc so Chaos Warp, Flash freeze won't be useful. In regards to Blade he's great for Boss rushing but when fighting bosses with huge health pools his damage over time will even out. Sustained damage over time and group buffs will be the most important thing heroes can bring to raids.

    Has there already more insight shared on console raids apart from 5 players only?

    Not sure what you're asking. Are you asking for info additional to what I posted or questioning the legitimacy of the above info?

    -------------------------------------- NEW TO MARVEL HEROES OMEGA? CHECKOUT MY BEGINNERS GUIDES HERE | COSTUME PREVIEWS HERE ---------------------------------------

    --------------------------------------------------- FOLLOW ME TWITTER & YOUTUBE | PSN ID: TONYBING_MHO | STEAM ID: TONYBINGGAMING -------------------------------------------------

  • MercwithMouth82MercwithMouth82 Posts: 4,968 Uncanny

    @TonyBing said:

    @MercwithMouth82 said:

    @TonyBing said:

    @MetaiPhoenix said:

    @Chufmoney said:
    Actually, and yes, I just "actually'd" you, we do balance changes all the time. Not all of it is noted in patch notes unless it's particularly crucial or major.

    We constantly evaluate character power and try to update them, and, to be clear, the people making the loot boxes ARE NOT THE SAME FOLKS MAKING BALANCE CHANGES. One does not mean the other goes neglected.

    To your point, what in particular are you feeling "imbalanced"?

    The huge roster of heroes yet only very few put out insane numbers the rest of the roster dreams about.For example:

    Blade - 100% brutal, not an execute, stack brutal dmg, whip for bloodlust, signature to win, easily hits for high MILLIONS every time signature is active.

    What other character has a 100% brut strike ability that isn't crippled by "execute" IE: your damage is capped based on % of targets health

    So in forming a raid team, it would be pretty stupid not to have at least 1 blade on your team. And it's so damn cheesy. Why bother to play or gear anybody else if clearly there is another hero who requires much less "itemization" and actual character building?

    Forget having to look for gear that adds crit rating, crit dmg, brut rating, brut dmg. Just give me the lame Ketchup! hero I only need to find brut dmg gear to win.

    Iceman, Blade, Scarlet Witch, And 2 other randoms pretty much the meta for a potential console raid. And it's just incredibly boring and disappointing to have a decent size roster but the kit for a select few heroes makes it incredibly easy to be "good" without having to take much time in order to do so.

    Raid bosses will be immune to cc so Chaos Warp, Flash freeze won't be useful. In regards to Blade he's great for Boss rushing but when fighting bosses with huge health pools his damage over time will even out. Sustained damage over time and group buffs will be the most important thing heroes can bring to raids.

    Has there already more insight shared on console raids apart from 5 players only?

    Not sure what you're asking. Are you asking for info additional to what I posted or questioning the legitimacy of the above info?

    Just wondering if we have confirmation via some stream for instance that apart from fewer players the raid(s) will be the same on consoles.

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