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Captain Marvel Weak?

undeadflepundeadflep Posts: 26 Mighty
edited May 28 in CAPTAIN MARVEL

When I play Captain Marvel, She feels much weaker than other characters. She seems to be doing much less damage compared to others. I don't know if i'm doing something wrong or if my equipment isn't great but also on PC she feels weak. She also is very squishy. I don't know maybe i'm just crazy.

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Comments

  • Matt34leo2Matt34leo2 Posts: 1,012 Astonishing

    You are not crazy. To be super strength Ms. Marvel, this character in game feels incredibly weak to me. I was expecting her to be as durable or near as durable to colossus. Man was I wrong. I just expected more of a tank feel with her super strength, but I just feel like she is more of a range player. As much as I want her to be a melee tank, I just have yet to find the right gear or artifacts to make her durable enough to get in close or cause any REAL damage. It takes her far too long to kill things. I have her strength attribute at 17 and her energy around the same. Furthermore, her durability is at 15, as well. her life bar still drains too fast and she still isn't putting out any real damage. Kind of disappointed in her DPS. You are not alone. Pity too--she is one of my favs from ultimate alliance.

  • undeadflepundeadflep Posts: 26 Mighty

    @Matt34leo2 said:
    You are not crazy. To be super strength Ms. Marvel, this character in game feels incredibly weak to me. I was expecting her to be as durable or near as durable to colossus. Man was I wrong. I just expected more of a tank feel with her super strength, but I just feel like she is more of a range player. As much as I want her to be a melee tank, I just have yet to find the right gear or artifacts to make her durable enough to get in close or cause any REAL damage. It takes her far too long to kill things. I have her strength attribute at 17 and her energy around the same. Furthermore, her durability is at 15, as well. her life bar still drains too fast and she still isn't putting out any real damage. Kind of disappointed in her DPS. You are not alone. Pity too--she is one of my favs from ultimate alliance.

    Good to know i'm not alone lol. but yeah she dies way to fast.

  • Sovereign899Sovereign899 Posts: 89 Mighty

    @undeadflep said:

    @Matt34leo2 said:
    You are not crazy. To be super strength Ms. Marvel, this character in game feels incredibly weak to me. I was expecting her to be as durable or near as durable to colossus. Man was I wrong. I just expected more of a tank feel with her super strength, but I just feel like she is more of a range player. As much as I want her to be a melee tank, I just have yet to find the right gear or artifacts to make her durable enough to get in close or cause any REAL damage. It takes her far too long to kill things. I have her strength attribute at 17 and her energy around the same. Furthermore, her durability is at 15, as well. her life bar still drains too fast and she still isn't putting out any real damage. Kind of disappointed in her DPS. You are not alone. Pity too--she is one of my favs from ultimate alliance.

    Good to know i'm not alone lol. but yeah she dies way to fast.

    If you want high damage, you need to go ranged. I used her melee in CB and it wasn't worth it, switched to range-ish and I kill everything. I use Photon Devastation (spammy beam), E. Blast, Signature and dodge on first slots then in L2, Ground Smash, Crashdown, Uppercut and I. Light. Use G. Smash then Crash then Light then Uppercut, back off with E Blast then Devastation everything till back up, throwing Signature usually before E Blast. Talents are Photon Regen, Sparklefist (not gonna use them but Resonance makes build not spammable/maintainable), Starfall, Warbird Cry and Ground Cascade.

    There's actually a video of it somewhere in this forum

  • Matt34leo2Matt34leo2 Posts: 1,012 Astonishing

    @Sovereign899 said:

    @undeadflep said:

    @Matt34leo2 said:
    You are not crazy. To be super strength Ms. Marvel, this character in game feels incredibly weak to me. I was expecting her to be as durable or near as durable to colossus. Man was I wrong. I just expected more of a tank feel with her super strength, but I just feel like she is more of a range player. As much as I want her to be a melee tank, I just have yet to find the right gear or artifacts to make her durable enough to get in close or cause any REAL damage. It takes her far too long to kill things. I have her strength attribute at 17 and her energy around the same. Furthermore, her durability is at 15, as well. her life bar still drains too fast and she still isn't putting out any real damage. Kind of disappointed in her DPS. You are not alone. Pity too--she is one of my favs from ultimate alliance.

    Good to know i'm not alone lol. but yeah she dies way to fast.

    If you want high damage, you need to go ranged. I used her melee in CB and it wasn't worth it, switched to range-ish and I kill everything. I use Photon Devastation (spammy beam), E. Blast, Signature and dodge on first slots then in L2, Ground Smash, Crashdown, Uppercut and I. Light. Use G. Smash then Crash then Light then Uppercut, back off with E Blast then Devastation everything till back up, throwing Signature usually before E Blast. Talents are Photon Regen, Sparklefist (not gonna use them but Resonance makes build not spammable/maintainable), Starfall, Warbird Cry and Ground Cascade.

    There's actually a video of it somewhere in this forum

    Thanks for the response. All the talents you listed are the ones I use too. :) Her energy powers are ok and powerful enough. My only complaint was that I prefer to use her as a melee character and due to her lackluster melee DPS, that is almost impossible. After reading your post, I do think I can at least make some type of effective hybrid. I always used the leap smash move with her and I always keep either photon flash or one of the other energy beams (usually the one where you hold the button down). I like the move where she hits the ground and sends a wave of damage in front of her, but it just requires way too much spirit. Thanks for the advice. though. It really helped me to build a workable hybrid. :)

  • xxSHEPERDxxxxSHEPERDxx Posts: 160 Incredible

    Third time making this post as my browser keeps killing it. D:

    Overall, Carol's damage is weak all over. Her pure melee rotation is more powerful than her hybrid melee/ranged rotation, and Carol has too few options to even attempt a pure ranged rotation (along with redundancies).

    Her pure melee rotation is:
    Mighty punch, cosmic haymaker, infused uppercut, ground shattering smash, warbird charge, crashdown strike and glimpse of binary

    Start off with Cosmic haymaker x2, infused uppercut, cosmic haymaker again, mighty punshes to generate one more cosmic haymaker, and then chain from ground shattering' > warbird > crashdown. Then you're stuck mighty punching for 2 1/2 seconds to offset the too-long cooldown on ground shattering before repeating the full rotation; using glimpse of binary whenever it's available. You're using sparklefists and the talents that remove the energy cost on crashdown strike and ground shattering.

    Her mixed rotation is photonic devastation, ground shattering smash (technically it's ranged as you don't travel anywhere), crashdown strike, intense light, infused uppercut, evasive blast.

    You start off with ground shattering smash > crashdown strike > intense light > infused uppercut > evasive blast. This sets you back at range and with full power (by the time you're ready to act again). From here you use photonic devastation until ground shattering smash is off its lengthy cooldown and you begin the rotation again.

    There are several problems with Carol's ability set. For one, there is a redundancy in having both photonic blast and stellar beam, as they do around the same damage, cost similarly, and pretty much only have a difference in the morphology of the AOEs. One is a 360 AOE on point of impact, while the other is a penetrating beam that can hit multiple targets, at a penalty. The odd power out is stellar beam, because it has that penalty, but also because you already have photonic devastation, that penetrates multiple targets with no penalty.

    Carol also has up to six energy reload abilities, which are compensating for her too-high energy costs. Not only does that muddy up builds by forcing associate power configurations and eating up power slots (while dropping damage potential in a less restrictive loadout), but it also decreases any chance of parity between enhanced melee and ranged hybrid builds.

    Here's what I suggest:

    Mighty punch has a pretty shallow swing arc, decreasing it's chances to hit multiple targets. Compared to characters with wide swings like She Hulk and Colossus, who are tank contemporaries. When sparklefists is activated, mighty punch can proc random bursts of additional damage, but it's still at the cost of power, instead of being an actual talent bonus. What's more, this works against the nature of the ability itself, which is a regenerator abiity. The drain on this ability should be removed and it's swing arc improved.

    Cosmic Haymaker:
    This one hits in a wide AOE arc, thankfully, but has an absurd 50% power cost that immediately requires you 'reload' using one of various abilities. That's overkill and the power cost needs to be reduced, even if it means toning down the damage and splitting it up into repeat uses of the same ability (at a more controllable level, too).

    Infused uppercut:
    Another shallow hit arc. Does 'okay' damage but also reloads a small chunk of energy (somehow). This power needs to be removed. If cosmic haymaker would have its cost reduced and split up against repeat uses of itself, then there's no need for this ability. Instead, I would prefer to have it replaced with a multi-target, fast hitting melee ability that plays on Carol's tremendous speed. (She can move at mach 3) Have this new ability hit multiple targets similar to Daredevil's finisher. This would be a cooldown power no greater than 6 seconds.

    Crashdown strike:
    No longer regenerates power. Has increased power cost/damage when sparklefists are activated.

    Ground shattering smash:
    This modified attack is clearly spewing energy damage and needs to take on energy properties when sparklefist is enabled. The attack itself should be changed to a large scale spherical AOE, adding parity to crashdown strike and stellar flare's mob gathering for a much greater combo vs multi-targets (fitting of the tank class). The final talent would still reduce the energy cost, but not totally remove it. (-50% to -80%, tops)

    Warbird Charge:
    This one moves too far and can break a lock on under particular circumstances. Also, as it's already a cooldown power, there should not be a need to sit there and charge it up to get the full damage potential, but should always do it's highest damage right out the gate. The delay can still be maintained if the player decides to wait on it, but otherwise needs to do max damage as it is already a cooldown power. Should also take on energy properties when sparklefists are enabled. When sparklefists are enabled, it gains the similar damage bonus of max photonic energy and also uses some energy as a result. (currently has no cost)

    Stellar beam:
    Replace with 'Blinding Flash', which is either a conal or spherical AOE that can stun or confuse effected targets. No damage associated with it. Cooldown ability w/slight power cost.

    Photonic devastation:
    When used immediately after a cooldown ability, will knock down targets for 1.5s for the first full second it's channeled, then reverting. The enhanced version of this ability would knock down targets for 2.5s for same.

    Cosmic challenge:
    Rename to Cosmic Awareness (or perception). Remove the health gain bonus and instead make this more akin to Carol's ability set, granting her a buff to her dodge rating, allowing her to taunt targets and then dodge incoming attacks. Reword the description so it describes the use of her 'danger sense' trait.

    Aside form a sweep done to increase her damage potential across the board, with the energy reload abilities being removed, energy costs should also drop accordingly. This would allow for a greater combination of powers of either the melee or ranged type, or greater focus on one. The changes to her melee abilities would free up an extra ability slot which could then be used more readily for any mixed build. Stellar flare, radiant cascade, glimpse of binary and her ultimate would still regenerate power.

  • xxSHEPERDxxxxSHEPERDxx Posts: 160 Incredible

    I dun goofed. The melee rotation doesn't include warbird charge. It's stellar flare. -.-

  • brad2240brad2240 Posts: 571 Amazing

    I don't understand the devs' thought process behind the whole Photonics tree. Exorbitant resource costs, redundant powers and a complete lack of synergy between the abilities completely hampers CM's ranged build in a way that other hybrid heroes don't suffer. Honestly, the whole tree feels like an afterthought.

    I think the simplest fix would be to lower the energy costs of Photonic abilities across the board. Blast should be free; Wave, Stellar Beam and Intense Light should be about half cost; Devastation should be lowered to about a third of what it is now. Maybe then she could at least have a little sustainability in her ranged build.

    "If you get hurt, hurt 'em back. If you get killed, walk it off." -Captain America

  • MaxyisMaxyis Posts: 10 New Agent

    She seems great to me. I did cosmic trial with range build with ease. o.o

  • DoserDoser Tewkesbury, UKPosts: 1,594 Astonishing

    @Maxyis said:
    She seems great to me. I did cosmic trial with range build with ease. o.o

    Care to share a build as such that did this with "ease"?
    As these responses in several threads stating "nope I did it easy", are never getting followed with substantial help, substance or even proof at all.

    I'll probably main Deadpool... or Hulk... actually no I shall main Nova... or Rocket...
    This is and will be my life for the next undecided amount of time...
    YouTube: The_Doser
    PSN: The_Doser

  • MaxyisMaxyis Posts: 10 New Agent

    Ohh, I posted my guide, but I made an edit. It has to be approved by the person that made this thread.

  • Logan906Logan906 Posts: 1 New Agent
    edited June 17

    I beat super heroic with black widow and jean grey both in their mid 40' s and can't beat it with a level 60 ms marvel. Really?

  • IsaachumIsaachum Posts: 31 Mighty

    @Logan906 said:
    I beat super heroic with black widow and jean grey both in their mid 40' s and can't beat it with a level 60 ms marvel. Really?

    you failed to account for scaling, the lower your level the easier it is. Enemy stats are lower because your not expected to be in full up to date gear as you level, and once you hit 60 enemy stats scale to a place where gear is expected

  • FugitiveMindFugitiveMind Posts: 162 Incredible

    She's in a weird place, I'm still trying to get a handle on her and she was my main on pc before the BUE.
    There's a couple weird things that don't play like other characters.

    First, she isn't a straight "melee vs. ranged" she's melee or hybrid.
    This is because your sig, your dash, and crashdown strike (for vuln) are all melee, even if you go photonics tree for the balance.
    You get around this because everything is energy damage for a photonics build, so go with that instead of melee or ranged. CCR legendary is your friend here.

    Last talent makes the spender free and a second piece which is variable.
    The variable is the kicker, as it makes blast free, but if you talent it to bomb it's definitely NOT free.
    If it was, we'd have an easier time with this.

    I personally hate the main spender and want to run PD instead, but with the talent that ups the damage (and cost) being the only useful one in the set for a photonics build, it makes it drain your energy insanely fast. There IS a way I've made it work at this point with no infinities/gear to speak of and it's the following:

    Take the talent that makes crashdown fully restore your energy
    This means you don't get bomb, replace it with the uppercut.
    In this setup, CDS, IU and RC all regen energy which is a must if you want to use PD and still be able to cast light, wave, etc.

    I seem to recall the early days of making a PD Photonics build work on PC were rough, and I couldn't do it until I could get the regen up and I mean WAY up. Losing an artifact slot makes this less viable as the zola box (I think that was the regen one) eats up a spot better used for something else (ILAS, GotK, Shilleleigh, etc.). Best help currently is cost reduction overall, meaning stacking Energy of the MAs instead of Strength (Hence the ILAS).

    I need more toys and testing to try and make it work, but I'm determined, as it was my favorite in the old times and I want it back!

  • brad2240brad2240 Posts: 571 Amazing

    My opinion of Captain Marvel has changed since I played her in closed beta. I still think her Photonics tree needs an overhaul but I found a "ranged" build I've been enjoying, with Photonic Devastation as the main spender. It's all thanks to this video posted here:

    https://forums.marvelheroesomega.com/discussion/689/photonic-devastation#latest

    My skills are:
    Photonic Devastation
    Ground Shattering Smash
    Crashdown Strike
    Infused Uppercut
    Intense Light
    Evasive Blast
    Glimpse of Binary
    Flying Lunge

    Talents are:
    Photonic Regeneration
    Photonic Resonance
    Starfall
    Warbird's Cry
    Ground Shattering Cascade

    The rotation is Smash > Crashdown > Light > Uppercut > Evasive. Use GoB when it's up and fill with Devastation. It gives an in-and-out style that doesn't play like other ranged heroes. I've come to like it, and it kinda makes my other ranged toons feel too static now. :D

    Your Energy has to last 8 seconds, the length of Smash's CD, to start the rotation again. I added Energy through a Complete Relic of the Gibborim, Infinity Points and a Stone of Maxwell Jordan ring. If you don't have the ring, the Cybernetic Implant is a good artifact that drops fairly often. Medallions can be another good source of Photonic Energy.

    Also be on the lookout for the Advance Reserve Electrical Generator, an artifact that adds Energy attribute, a small amount of resource and (more importantly) resource cost reduction.

    All this has made Captain Marvel a character I enjoy playing now, but I feel like it's more work than it should be to get her to a viable level. Even then she's still middle of the pack, well behind the likes of Storm or Nova as ranged builds go.

    "If you get hurt, hurt 'em back. If you get killed, walk it off." -Captain America

  • MythicalKnightMythicalKnight Posts: 562 Amazing

    Lets be honest here man, she has nothing on her favor.
    She is not tanky enough for a melee build and range ? I'm not bothering with that.
    Skill tree are redundant and the cooldown is all over the place.
    Talents looks ugly as well, her rotation don't come together because of the cd.
    Damage is inconsistent and squishy.
    Look I love her, my very first character but I dropped her because is so clunky.
    That blonde need some serious love.

  • AntopippiAntopippi Posts: 50 Mighty

    I have a genuine soft spot for Ms Marvel as she was my favourite in MUA 1+2 so I purchased her and Psylocke straight away in closed and open beta. I enjoy using her now with the current rotation I have but I find the balance with this character pretty precarious and trying to find her sweet spot for a rotation, solid damage and getting to a point where I enjoyed using her has been an uphill task.

    My current rotation: smashing Blast-Cosmic haymayker-infused Uppercut-E.Blast-Ground smash
    followed by Smashing blast-infused uppercut-E.Blast-I.Light-signature (when CD wears off)

    Every other character apart from Ant Man I've found a rhythm quite quickly but the cost of energy abilities and CD's make her a hard character to get a rotation that flows and works at SH or above difficulty.

  • KuraseKurase Posts: 10 Mighty

    She feels more like a walking casket to me than the power house she is supposed to be.

  • MarkVsColinMarkVsColin Posts: 73 Mighty

    She needs some kinda buff as she is a very powerful hero in the comics, one of the weakest heroes in game sadly :/

    You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one ...

  • SpasianNinjaSpasianNinja Posts: 19 Mighty

    I have her in a good place right now and she is one of my two favorite heroes to play.

    Put some points into defense and deflect (strength as a main attribute helps this too) and use the pulse when she is surrounded as it reduces damage.

    I gave her the cosmic rod and put some points into brutal strike and damage. As long as I watch my positioning, she doesn't struggle. If I get surprised, I have an auto-revive on my catalyst.

    Also, I find that if I happen to blow my cooldowns and energy, I can fly up and circle around to get the enemies in position until my ground slam or other AoEs coodown.

    "You're already dead." -Psylocke (probably)

  • Cbomb23Cbomb23 Posts: 143 Incredible
    edited July 16

    I was having a decent time with her the other day (once I got her to 60 and thru cosmic trials she's been more fun), but today she feels like a squishy little worm who hits like a pillow. I was doing the Legendary quest on Ancient ruins (complete an event, cliff side treasure room, and 30 rune stones), and I was getting crushed the blue dark elf assassins were eating me alive I must have died 5-6 times before completing the quest. Don't know if I'm not specing her right or what, her ttk and survivabilty are just bad.

  • SlashZakuSlashZaku Posts: 62 Mighty

    She was maybe the 2nd hero I grabbed and I struggle with her. Can't advance past Cosmic Trial cause she feels way too 'squishy' and doesn't seem to be able to dish it out well enough =/. I'd go as far to say I don't even know how to build her between her melee and ranged attacks. Every time I sit down to play her and try to advance, I simply end up being disappointed and switching to someone else. Gonna look at a few different builds and see if I can find something but yeah, she's disappointing for me as she is.

  • brad2240brad2240 Posts: 571 Amazing

    @SlashZaku said:
    She was maybe the 2nd hero I grabbed and I struggle with her. Can't advance past Cosmic Trial cause she feels way too 'squishy' and doesn't seem to be able to dish it out well enough =/. I'd go as far to say I don't even know how to build her between her melee and ranged attacks. Every time I sit down to play her and try to advance, I simply end up being disappointed and switching to someone else. Gonna look at a few different builds and see if I can find something but yeah, she's disappointing for me as she is.

    This video helped me a lot:

    https://forums.marvelheroesomega.com/discussion/2867/captain-marvel-cosmic-completion-build#latest

    CM was the second hero I took through the cosmic trial and this was before they tuned down Mandarin's fire attack. It took me about 10 tries. In retrospect, doing Iceman first might have given me a false impression of the actual difficulty of the trial. :|

    Initially I was very disappointed with CM because I couldn't make a pure ranged build work the way I wanted it to. The Photonics tree has several redundant skills and everything costs a ridiculous amount of energy to use. I had to change my expectation of how she plays before I hit my stride with her.

    I play her as a hybrid build and I use these skills: Photonic Devastation, Ground Shattering Smash, Crashdown Strike, Intense Light, Infused Uppercut, Evasive Blast, Glimpse of Binary and her dash, of course. The rotation is:

    Smash > Crashdown > Light > Uppercut > Evasive. When the Sig is available use it after Crashdown. Fill with Devastation until Smash is off CD and repeat the process.

    It's an in and out style that I've come to love, despite it not being what I wanted in the beginning. It may not be for everybody though.

    This build and pure melee are the only really viable options, IMO, which makes her feel limited. Unless they do a major overhaul of the Photonics tree I don't think pure ranged is ever going to be any good. As she is, a good bit of work got her to a place I'm really happy with but she's definitely mid-tier, no contender to the likes of Storm or Blade in damage output.

    "If you get hurt, hurt 'em back. If you get killed, walk it off." -Captain America

  • IceBusterIceBuster Original East CoastPosts: 267 Amazing

    Just completed her CT and it wasnt too bad. I followed TBG's guide with a slight modification. Her Starfall talent is really useful in CT. Starfall adds DoT to Crashdown Strike, restores your photonic energy to max, and activates a shield which absorbs 2000 damage.

    That talent and power combo alone made it easy for me to corral the mobs. Was able to have about 2 min to spare for both Mandarin and Red Skull.

    Increased drop rate for cosmic artifacts would be nice.

  • GreensparksJPGreensparksJP Posts: 146 Incredible

    Is she still really weak, or did they fix her?

  • brad2240brad2240 Posts: 571 Amazing

    There have been no changes, but I wouldn't call her "really weak." She's mid-tier, if you put the work in you'll get good results but she's never going to be a Storm or a Iceman.

    "If you get hurt, hurt 'em back. If you get killed, walk it off." -Captain America

  • GreensparksJPGreensparksJP Posts: 146 Incredible

    @brad2240 said:
    There have been no changes, but I wouldn't call her "really weak." She's mid-tier, if you put the work in you'll get good results but she's never going to be a Storm or a Iceman.

    Gotcha, thanks

  • ostrichwranglerostrichwrangler Posts: 91 Mighty

    @GreensparksJP said:
    Is she still really weak, or did they fix her?

    Make sure you get some defense and deflect in your build and get in there an punch it out. I'm finding that's the most fun way to play her. Sparklefists all the way.

  • GreensparksJPGreensparksJP Posts: 146 Incredible

    @ostrichwrangler said:

    @GreensparksJP said:
    Is she still really weak, or did they fix her?

    Make sure you get some defense and deflect in your build and get in there an punch it out. I'm finding that's the most fun way to play her. Sparklefists all the way.

    Good to know. Thanks. I'm gonna try that

  • SlashZakuSlashZaku Posts: 62 Mighty

    @brad2240 said:

    This build and pure melee are the only really viable options, IMO, which makes her feel limited. Unless they do a major overhaul of the Photonics tree I don't think pure ranged is ever going to be any good. As she is, a good bit of work got her to a place I'm really happy with but she's definitely mid-tier, no contender to the likes of Storm or Blade in damage output.

    Think this was my problem with her. I was trying to lean more heavily towards ranged. Just trying her out again while I grind to another 500 shards and changed her up towards melee. She's...hitting harder. Interest regained. Just have to spec her gear over from what it was and build towards melee and get her some gear to up her Crit Hit but I'm liking what I see so far now.

  • FugitiveMindFugitiveMind Posts: 162 Incredible

    I'm hell-bent on making her ranged build work.
    Getting closer but I'm still missing some pieces to compensate for how much of an energy hog she is with her photonics abilities without sacrificing damage.

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