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Mistakes were made...Might want to hold off making Gambit your first hero.

DrazharDrazhar WallcrawlerPosts: 114 Incredible
edited May 19 in GAMBIT

So, even knowing Gambit was in a pretty bad state for the launch, I chose him as my starting hero since he's my favorite.

Big mistake.

This patch makes Gambit virtually unplayable thanks to 2 changes that I've noticed so far.

Royal Flush his only decent spammable AoE now has an 8 second cooldown, when it had none prior to this patch, and this change was not listed in the patch notes. The Kinetic Energy "bonus" halves the cooldown if you have the KE to spend.

Street Sweep instead of having no cooldown now has an 8s cooldown. Again, unlisted in the patch notes.

These changes make a bad hero straight up unbearable.. this is just unacceptable for Gambit players.

Street Sweep cooldown might be due to the ground effect changes, but an 8s cooldown on something like this is awful when it was vital to trash clearing. If anything get rid of the ground effect and just have the DoT apply to enemies it makes contact with. Remove the cooldown.

I have no clue who thought any of these changes were good, or why they made it in to this patch. The only thing I can figure is these were being tested and a mistake was made that slipped it to the live patch? This makes me wonder if there are any other changes in this patch that weren't listed though...

@KomoriMan @Asros @MichaelMayhem @AgentVapor etc, how would I go about refunding my Splinters that I spent on Gambit? Or do I just have to wait for eventual changes before I can play?

Gambit is in desperate need of an update (for both console and PC) @MichaelMayhem ...plz halp.


EDIT: Another change/bug I see is that Fold 'Em has no Kinetic Energy effect. At least it's not listed in the tooltip.

I can't see if there were any talent changes as I can't even look at them until I'm level 32...for whatever reason. (should probably change that @GazFirefly )

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Comments

  • oxxANUBISxxooxxANUBISxxo Posts: 3 New Agent

    @Drazhar I was looking for somewhere to post this exact same thing. It's crazy to me that gazillion thought it would be better to do something like this to an already mid tier character. On top of that, they don't even mention it in the update or notes. Which means I wasted 900 G on him! This to me is downright awful and somewhat shady. Gazillion needs to address this issue ASAP!

  • AtricksAtricks Posts: 7 New Agent

    I prefer it having a cool down, it just needs to hit harder to compensate.

  • GwenverineGwenverine Posts: 46 Mighty

    Those two powers have 8 second effects on them, but that's still an odd change. It makes him much less fluid.

    Thanks for bringing this up. I'll have to keep an eye on other characters.

    And yes, not even being able to look at Talents until 32 is straight up nonsense.

    Jubilee: How did you do that?
    Gambit: With style, petite. With style.

  • GrievereGrievere Posts: 12 Mighty

    Agreed plyed gambit to prestige green. Still couldnt pass cosmic trial with full cosmic gear,legendary rank 1, ke cost,cooldowns and low damage output.Also squishy. Beat it first try with jean grey

  • AtricksAtricks Posts: 7 New Agent

    I've been playing other heroes since I got gambit to 60. Wow he is weak, maybe he has abnormally good omega gear?

  • AlllDayAlllDay Posts: 3 New Agent

    I'm 60 with decent gear and ya he does seem weak, which suks cause I luv his character

  • DrazharDrazhar Wallcrawler Posts: 114 Incredible
    edited May 23

    So I'm level 47 now, and a couple more things;

    • Royal Flush costs a ridiculous 198.5~ Kinetic Energy to use now. Come on... at least this one doesn't literally drain your entire bar of KE regardless of how much you have I guess.

    • Fold 'Em most definitely does not have a KE effect, it doesn't appear to just be a tooltip error. No KE is spent when you use it, and nothing additional happens (that I've noticed anyways). So that makes this his only (non-sig/ult) in the kit that doesn't have a KE effect.

    • All In is just weird right now. In good (broken?) and bad ways:

      • The knockback portion of this happens every single time now, due to the CC changes. So you're literally just pushing non-boss mobs (usually elites/champions as those are the only ones who live long enough for it to matter) straight down the block as you channel All In. Now this is more obnoxious than it is helpful for trash mobs as they tend to take forever to kill when you're pushing them all over the place - Makes it impossible to properly AoE them (especially with the awful radius this particular skill already has), and it knocks them clear out of your 2 ground DoTs you have which are both cooldown skills now (Street Sweep and House of Cards). Beyond frustrating. If the CC aspect of it is going to stay this needs to be changed to a knockdown...

      • Now on bosses...this CC thing is probably OP? It doesn't push them back, but it continually interrupts anything they're trying to do. Basically they stand there as you channel All In for 5 minutes before they die.

      • And this is what we have to work worth now, as you guys broke all the other spammable AoE (Royal Flush and Street Sweep cooldowns, Ace of Spades is clunky/sucks/too KE dependent) we have in one way or another.

      • All that said, the CC thing works that way on other heroes too. I did a quick test on Iceman and he constantly has his enemies frozen every tick of Ice Slick....which is a million times better than having to channel All In for a similar (but worse) effect.


    Overall Gambit is just not at all polished/fluid right now, and it's extremely frustrating to play him. He needs help... he's needed help for awhile.

    The cooldowns make him much clunkier to use, though I'm sure there may be some that prefer it (maybe make it an option via talents...but don't push it on the main skills).

  • xXShynXxxXShynXx New JerseyPosts: 19 Mighty

    @Drazhar said:
    So I'm level 47 now, and a couple more things;

    • Royal Flush costs a ridiculous 198.5~ Kinetic Energy to use now. Come on... at least this one doesn't literally drain your entire bar of KE regardless of how much you have I guess.

    • Fold 'Em most definitely does not have a KE effect, it doesn't appear to just be a tooltip error. No KE is spent when you use it, and nothing additional happens (that I've noticed anyways). So that makes this his only (non-sig/ult) in the kit that doesn't have a KE effect.

    • All In is just weird right now. In good (broken?) and bad ways:

      • The knockback portion of this happens every single time now, due to the CC changes. So you're literally just pushing non-boss mobs (usually elites/champions as those are the only ones who live long enough for it to matter) straight down the block as you channel All In. Now this is more obnoxious than it is helpful for trash mobs as they tend to take forever to kill when you're pushing them all over the place - Makes it impossible to properly AoE them (especially with the awful radius this particular skill already has), and it knocks them clear out of your 2 ground DoTs you have which are both cooldown skills now (Street Sweep and House of Cards). Beyond frustrating. If the CC aspect of it is going to stay this needs to be changed to a knockdown...

      • Now on bosses...this CC thing is probably OP? It doesn't push them back, but it continually interrupts anything they're trying to do. Basically they stand there as you channel All In for 5 minutes before they die.

      • And this is what we have to work worth now, as you guys broke all the other spammable AoE (Royal Flush and Street Sweep cooldowns, Ace of Spades is clunky/sucks/too KE dependent) we have in one way or another.

      • All that said, the CC thing works that way on other heroes too. I did a quick test on Iceman and he constantly has his enemies frozen every tick of Ice Slick....which is a million times better than having to channel All In for a similar (but worse) effect.


    Overall Gambit is just not at all polished/fluid right now, and it's extremely frustrating to play him. He needs help... he's needed help for awhile.

    The cooldowns make him much clunkier to use, though I'm sure there may be some that prefer it (maybe make it an option via talents...but don't push it on the main skills).

    Yea they really need to change him back to closed beta status at least this is just bad, royal flush and street sweep with a cooldown......no thx.

  • DrazharDrazhar Wallcrawler Posts: 114 Incredible
    edited May 28

    I just realized this the other night when I last played... Street Sweep no longer applies Vulnerability.

    So Gambit has no vulnerability applicator in his entire kit, including via talents (unless I'm missing something?).

    Not sure how many heroes that this is the case for. (Remove vuln from the game already, please)

    Sooo...another thing to add to the ever growing list.

  • DrBubbles360DrBubbles360 Posts: 498 Amazing

    I tried him because he was going to be my next character to unlock but he really was terrible. I've leveled several heroes to level ten just to try them out and he's by far been the hardest one to level just because it took so long to kill anything and he died a lot. Like died at areas the other characters just flew through. I hope they fix him because he's a great character and he should be fun to play which he's currently not.

  • TechnoGolemTechnoGolem Posts: 46 Mighty

    Gambit is the third character I started trying to get to 60. So far he feels like the weakest of the three. I switched back to Cyclops to level up his legendary while trying to earn more for other characters.

  • NoBammasNoBammas Posts: 5 New Agent

    Gaz really needs to atleast put him back to the way he was before. The cooldowns really need to be removed and pushing enemies with All In is beyond obnoxious. He's my main and my god did they nerf him hard. Pretty disappointing and makes me cautious on whether or not to continue playing until they sort everything out

  • JackalackusJackalackus Posts: 41 Mighty

    I couldn't agree more with this, I bought him on a wim and being an impulsive guy I bought the cosmic rod to buff his energy powers thinking sweet both his melee and ranged are energy. Decided to play ranged as i felt his card throwing was more unique. Got to lvl 11 smashed his heroic trial and was pretty happy with my impulsive purchase, it only went downhill from there. Usually i do super heroic at lvl 22-26, couldn't even scrape it, waited till 32 and still could barely get by mandarin.

    All his ranged AoE are on cooldown what is the point in him? His Sig is just dreadful, if you are going to pin me for 4 seconds give me and invincibility rate not 80%, look at Warmachine, his gives invincibility, damage buff to team (if selected talent) and has a massive AoE. His single target isn't even that impressive when he has no resource. His melee is only slightly better but still incredibly lack luster.

    Please revamp gambit Gaz, no point in having a cocky southern attitude, if you pack a punch as effective as a biscuit that's been held in tea for too long!

    "And a lean, silent figure slowly fades into the gathering darkness, aware at last that in this world, with great power there must also come–great responsibility!" Amazing Fantasy - August 1962.

  • StaalStaal Assembled Posts: 35 Mighty

    Did not like him too much on pc, but bought him here for his synergy, guess he will sit at 50.

  • PatavianPatavian Posts: 8 New Agent

    I'd have to mainly agree with everything above. He's absolutely near the bottom tier of characters with regards to his end-game viability. Basing that solely on ease(or difficulty) of passing cosmic trial.

  • BigmanTheBeastBigmanTheBeast Wandering the WastelandsPosts: 36 Mighty

    My all time favorite from the X-Men, and one of the most vulnerable characters i've played. Of course he shouldn't be as durable as certain others, but damn does his health drop fast. I have no problems killing things and I haven't died with him outside of trials, but the trials are ridiculous. I always get to the end, with the boss at about 20-25% health left and I drop. I avoid power moves and use alot of movement anyway, but still he drops instantly from something.

    I take what is needed, kill only when provoked

    I need no creature comforts, only my tools to survive

    I keep to the shadows, disappear with the smoke

    I am ageless, I am the wanderer

  • brad2240brad2240 Posts: 571 Amazing

    Since no one else has mentioned it, I thought I should point out that Street Sweep's cooldown was lowered to 4 seconds. No idea when this happened though.

    "If you get hurt, hurt 'em back. If you get killed, walk it off." -Captain America

  • Tchalla84Tchalla84 Posts: 142 Incredible
    edited July 18

    Gambit is nowhere near as weak or even close to bottom tier as you guys are saying he is. He does have some issues that need to be addressed, his street sweep still applies vulnerability to enemies, but it no longer cc's. I like the cooldowns, it makes a real rotation necessary. Etc.... he can be great if you main him like myself, but if you picked him up hoping he'd be a beast like the big 3 of blade, scarlet witch, and Angela... honorable mentions iceman and storm then y'all bugging.

    If you tell me sky's the limit, I'll tell you there's footprints on the moon.

  • brad2240brad2240 Posts: 571 Amazing

    @Tchalla84 said:
    Gambit is nowhere near as weak or even close to bottom tier as you guys are saying he is. He does have some issues that need to be addressed, his street sweep still applies vulnerability to enemies, but it no longer cc's. I like the cooldowns, it makes a real rotation necessary. Etc.... he can be great if you main him like myself, but if you picked him up hoping he'd be a beast like the big 3 of blade, scarlet witch, and Angela... honorable mentions iceman and storm then y'all bugging.

    I just leveled him to 60 for the synergy, haven't taken him to cosmic yet but I was fairly impressed with him. I enjoyed the way he plays a lot more than I expected after reading all the negativity about him. He felt a little squishy but that was my only real complaint.

    "If you get hurt, hurt 'em back. If you get killed, walk it off." -Captain America

  • MythicalKnightMythicalKnight Posts: 562 Amazing

    @BigmanTheBeast said:
    My all time favorite from the X-Men, and one of the most vulnerable characters i've played. Of course he shouldn't be as durable as certain others, but damn does his health drop fast. I have no problems killing things and I haven't died with him outside of trials, but the trials are ridiculous. I always get to the end, with the boss at about 20-25% health left and I drop. I avoid power moves and use alot of movement anyway, but still he drops instantly from something.

    He's damage is way too low and probably the worst talents in the game, you sure he is fine.
    Try a melee build then tell me he's good.

  • Tchalla84Tchalla84 Posts: 142 Incredible
    edited July 19

    I just uploaded a couple YouTube videos never did it before and I'm only doing it for this game just to show y'all gambit isnt trash my TTK is 55 secs YouTube channel name is daddy warbucksss I got two loadouts for gambit up there. Gear him properly and he could be very good considering he's a mid tier character

    If you tell me sky's the limit, I'll tell you there's footprints on the moon.

  • BigmanTheBeastBigmanTheBeast Wandering the WastelandsPosts: 36 Mighty
    edited July 20

    @Tchalla84 said:
    Gambit is nowhere near as weak or even close to bottom tier as you guys are saying he is. He does have some issues that need to be addressed, his street sweep still applies vulnerability to enemies, but it no longer cc's. I like the cooldowns, it makes a real rotation necessary. Etc.... he can be great if you main him like myself, but if you picked him up hoping he'd be a beast like the big 3 of blade, scarlet witch, and Angela... honorable mentions iceman and storm then y'all bugging.

    I agree.

    @MythicalKnight said:

    @BigmanTheBeast said:
    My all time favorite from the X-Men, and one of the most vulnerable characters i've played. Of course he shouldn't be as durable as certain others, but damn does his health drop fast. I have no problems killing things and I haven't died with him outside of trials, but the trials are ridiculous. I always get to the end, with the boss at about 20-25% health left and I drop. I avoid power moves and use alot of movement anyway, but still he drops instantly from something.

    He's damage is way too low and probably the worst talents in the game, you sure he is fine.
    Try a melee build then tell me he's good.

    No way in hell would I think a melee build Gambit is viable even with boosted or reconfigured stats.

    I take what is needed, kill only when provoked

    I need no creature comforts, only my tools to survive

    I keep to the shadows, disappear with the smoke

    I am ageless, I am the wanderer

  • DrazharDrazhar Wallcrawler Posts: 114 Incredible

    @Tchalla84 said:
    I just uploaded a couple YouTube videos never did it before and I'm only doing it for this game just to show y'all gambit isnt trash my TTK is 55 secs YouTube channel name is daddy warbucksss I got two loadouts for gambit up there. Gear him properly and he could be very good considering he's a mid tier character

    How do those builds flow in actual combat though, not just against a training dummy? There's no area spam skill there, I believe.

    @BigmanTheBeast said:

    @MythicalKnight said:

    @BigmanTheBeast said:
    My all time favorite from the X-Men, and one of the most vulnerable characters i've played. Of course he shouldn't be as durable as certain others, but damn does his health drop fast. I have no problems killing things and I haven't died with him outside of trials, but the trials are ridiculous. I always get to the end, with the boss at about 20-25% health left and I drop. I avoid power moves and use alot of movement anyway, but still he drops instantly from something.

    He's damage is way too low and probably the worst talents in the game, you sure he is fine.
    Try a melee build then tell me he's good.

    No way in hell would I think a melee build Gambit is viable even with boosted or reconfigured stats.

    That's probably where the main differences in opinions come from. Melee is completely broken/unplayable.

  • Tchalla84Tchalla84 Posts: 142 Incredible

    @Drazhar said:

    @Tchalla84 said:
    I just uploaded a couple YouTube videos never did it before and I'm only doing it for this game just to show y'all gambit isnt trash my TTK is 55 secs YouTube channel name is daddy warbucksss I got two loadouts for gambit up there. Gear him properly and he could be very good considering he's a mid tier character

    How do those builds flow in actual combat though, not just against a training dummy? There's no area spam skill there, I believe.

    They actually flow great! I didn't play when you could spam royal flush or street sweep all day. So I'm not missing anything, and I prefer if players would have to use different options, rather than lazily using the same moves back to back to back. Thats probably why they changed it to a cool down.

    You said those two changes made Gambit virtually unplayable, the lie detector says that was a lie. He's very good, I'll post a video tonight when I get off work of my loadout n rotation in action in the new daily bugle event on cosmic when I get off work. You won't see any area spam skill.

    If you tell me sky's the limit, I'll tell you there's footprints on the moon.

  • ShuffleFMShuffleFM CaliforniaPosts: 3 New Agent

    I think Gambit is ok. Not the worst hero I got through cosmic. You have to try and corral them together since you can't spam your AOEs, and with some decent brutal ratings his signature does good damage. I haven't tried a melee build yet, but ranged seems to be fine. At this point in the games life getting to cosmic is a good viability test imo. His CDs could stand to be lower and I'd like to see his signature down to 30 or 35 seconds.

  • Tchalla84Tchalla84 Posts: 142 Incredible

    @Drazhar said:

    @Tchalla84 said:
    I just uploaded a couple YouTube videos never did it before and I'm only doing it for this game just to show y'all gambit isnt trash my TTK is 55 secs YouTube channel name is daddy warbucksss I got two loadouts for gambit up there. Gear him properly and he could be very good considering he's a mid tier character

    How do those builds flow in actual combat though, not just against a training dummy? There's no area spam skill there, I believe.

    Here's how it flows in actual combat.

    If you tell me sky's the limit, I'll tell you there's footprints on the moon.

  • DrazharDrazhar Wallcrawler Posts: 114 Incredible

    @Tchalla84 said:

    @Drazhar said:

    @Tchalla84 said:
    I just uploaded a couple YouTube videos never did it before and I'm only doing it for this game just to show y'all gambit isnt trash my TTK is 55 secs YouTube channel name is daddy warbucksss I got two loadouts for gambit up there. Gear him properly and he could be very good considering he's a mid tier character

    How do those builds flow in actual combat though, not just against a training dummy? There's no area spam skill there, I believe.

    They actually flow great! I didn't play when you could spam royal flush or street sweep all day. So I'm not missing anything, and I prefer if players would have to use different options, rather than lazily using the same moves back to back to back. Thats probably why they changed it to a cool down.

    You said those two changes made Gambit virtually unplayable, the lie detector says that was a lie. He's very good, I'll post a video tonight when I get off work of my loadout n rotation in action in the new daily bugle event on cosmic when I get off work. You won't see any area spam skill.

    By virtually unplayable, I meant no fun to play more than anything.

    Sure I could clear content with him, but it's just not fun.

    Guess it's coming from PC to the console version, it's just unbearable to me.

    And no offense to your build, but it's not exactly my preferred style of play.

    Out of curiosity do you have any other equally geared heroes that you have to compare Gambit to? (I don't, so i'm genuinely curious if you know for a fact that he's just as good as other heroes)

  • Tchalla84Tchalla84 Posts: 142 Incredible

    @Drazhar said:
    By virtually unplayable, I meant no fun to play more than anything.

    Sure I could clear content with him, but it's just not fun.

    Guess it's coming from PC to the console version, it's just unbearable to me.

    And no offense to your build, but it's not exactly my preferred style of play.

    Out of curiosity do you have any other equally geared heroes that you have to compare Gambit to? (I don't, so i'm genuinely curious if you know for a fact that he's just as good as other heroes)

    I see where your coming from, since I haven't played on PC I haven't had the chance to see how he handles on there n then compare n contrast.

    I use 4 loadouts in total and interchange talents here n there just to switch it up.

    I have a blast playing with gambit he's not top tier or anything of the sort, he's a middle of the pack character for sure. For me though he's been my favorite marvel character (besides black panther) since the 90s cartoon so I'll play him regardless of how strong or weak they made him.

    I have 9 lvl 60 toons with full cosmic gear
    Gambit
    Blade
    Black panther
    Wolverine
    Spider man
    Storm
    scarlet witch
    Iron man
    War machine

    Gambit is my best geared hero then wolverine n tchalla I main those 3.

    None of the hero's I main are top tier but I do have top tier toons as well and gambit can't keep up with blade or some of the others who are upper tier and top tier. But I feel as tho he is above a equally geared iron man, spider man, and others who are mid tier.

    If you tell me sky's the limit, I'll tell you there's footprints on the moon.

  • phantomriserphantomriser Posts: 2 New Agent

    stronger than spider man idk about that maybe at single target but overall dps too? literally all his hard hitting moves is aoe. > @Tchalla84 said:

    @Drazhar said:
    By virtually unplayable, I meant no fun to play more than anything.

    Sure I could clear content with him, but it's just not fun.

    Guess it's coming from PC to the console version, it's just unbearable to me.

    And no offense to your build, but it's not exactly my preferred style of play.

    Out of curiosity do you have any other equally geared heroes that you have to compare Gambit to? (I don't, so i'm genuinely curious if you know for a fact that he's just as good as other heroes)

    I see where your coming from, since I haven't played on PC I haven't had the chance to see how he handles on there n then compare n contrast.

    I use 4 loadouts in total and interchange talents here n there just to switch it up.

    I have a blast playing with gambit he's not top tier or anything of the sort, he's a middle of the pack character for sure. For me though he's been my favorite marvel character (besides black panther) since the 90s cartoon so I'll play him regardless of how strong or weak they made him.

    I have 9 lvl 60 toons with full cosmic gear
    Gambit
    Blade
    Black panther
    Wolverine
    Spider man
    Storm
    scarlet witch
    Iron man
    War machine

    Gambit is my best geared hero then wolverine n tchalla I main those 3.

    None of the hero's I main are top tier but I do have top tier toons as well and gambit can't keep up with blade or some of the others who are upper tier and top tier. But I feel as tho he is above a equally geared iron man, spider man, and others who are mid tier.

    Stronger than spider man idk about that maybe at single target but overall dps too? Literally all of his hard hitting moves is aoe.

  • Tchalla84Tchalla84 Posts: 142 Incredible

    @phantomriser said:
    stronger than spider man idk about that maybe at single target but overall dps too? literally all his hard hitting moves is aoe.

    I'm not saying for certain he is, but I feel as though he is. Being in groups with a equally geared spidey, I perform better with my gambit at clearing adds n bosses than the spidey does. He uses the jumping spider loadout n rotation. And the fastest I've seen someone clear a dummy with spidey as well was 1:15 TTK.

    But this is only my opinion from what I've seen I'm not saying it's fact, without some sort of scorecard or parser to analyze the toons close in damage potential can only be speculated and debated, unless you go off TTK.

    If you tell me sky's the limit, I'll tell you there's footprints on the moon.

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